Signature Escapes Vacation Club
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Elkhart, Indiana
Signature Escapes Vacation Club - Cruise Review from Elkhart, Indiana
They never gave me a bill for the renewal of membership. I never got my free cruise I sent a check and they returned it and said they needed a money order and it was too late by then.
No free cruise.
Now they say my membership has expired I cannot get a hold of anyone I paid $8250 and I found better deals on the Internet . their flights they use off ther websites anyone can get to it's a big rip off I hope they come to town so I can go back and tell everyone not to buy anything from them.
Scam
We sat thru the presentation and received the "voucher" for free airfare, hotel and a cruise. I stupidly paid for the travel coupons about 200 dollars in total.
Called and requested my air travel dates and found out that there was no funding for the air fare, so.... Now they don't answer their phones. Scam scam scam as they say if it looks like it is too good to be true, it probably is. I just wish I had listened to my inner voice.
I feel sorry for those who have lost much more than I did. It was supposed to be our 25th anniversary trip.....
Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Signature Escapes Travel scam .
Signature Escapes Travel scam .
legacy destinations has changed there name to Signature Escapes to hide there complaints and ruthless sales tactics after investigation from our credit card company we learned that they simply changed there name
DO not do purchase anything or give them your hard earned money for lies on discounted travel Signature Escapes Inc .
My previous post before they changed there name to Signature Escapes
"In this country justice prevails," "they just pilfered tons and tons of money from people. It's a question of there boldness and deceit. It was done with pure malice and intent to defraud the public." please be careful
My wife and I received a letter in the mail that looked like a check. She actually that it was a check (for $1398.00). I knew better and after convincing her it was fake, she called the number on the letter. In order to get this “free gift,” we were instructed to attend a 90 minute presentation which we were told was not a sales presentation.
Something smelt fishy, but my wife convinced me to go and waste our Saturday afternoon, after all it is only 90 minutes of my life for a potential reward. We made the 20 minute drive to a Hilton hotel near the Ft. Lauderdale airport and paid the parking fees the hotel charged us.
After the 2 hour (not 90 minutes) presentation in a freezing cold room I was ready to get our “free gift” and go. During the presentation they promised some unbelievable prices so of course I was a bit skeptical. After telling the salesman that I would not be handing over my credit card to pay their over 10k price tag, all of a sudden the price went down. Then it went down again, and again. Finally somehow I was given the price of $2500 for the same exact program they showed me during the presentation. Now why didn't they just show me that to begin with?!
After telling the salesman Rodger Williams who apparently is the CEO no for the 20th time, the insults started to come. Not only did he insult me, he constantly made inappropriate sexual remarks towards my wife. After a half hour of this, I was pissed, my wife and I started to walk out. We were then told we had to be there to get our “free gifts.” So we came back in the room to get the gift and now all of a sudden we could do a 2 year trial instead for $1500. I signed the dotted line because my wife wanted to do so. It turned out it actually cost $2149, which again I was uncomfortable with spending here, but to make the wife happy I did.
After another half hour in paper work signing our life away, we had spent a total of 3 hours there. Finally we got the prize we were promised for coming in. This is where I was real pissed. The gifts have a “registration fee” of $100 on top of all the taxes and who knows what else. We are expected to blindly send another $100 out just to see our options. This smells more and more like a scam each minute we spend at the place.
We get home and start trying to do some research and see nothing good out on the internet about this company, but we figured you can't always take what people on the internet say as fact. So we got our member info and called the 1-800 number. They told us we had to wait till after we have given up our 3 days rite of rescission (the time which the law allows you to cancel) to use the service were just purchased. Are you counting the red flags here? Don't be as *** as I was!
Finally were able to get online to book a trip and everything that we could book through this so called “wholesale travel” company, we could book on our own FOR LESS! That's right you can go to the same exact places through any travel site for less than what they are charging! Prices were nothing close to what they had showed us during the presentation. After calling several times to try to get my money back, eventually my phone number was blocked.
Do not let these criminals scam you like they scammed me! Rodger Williams is the CEO and Rob Crawford is the owner. They had also informed us that they just opened another office to scam more people in Jacksonville FL. Don't fall for their lies and lose out on thousands like I did, cancel while you still can! The new location is Baton Rouge Louisiana under there new name .
Signature Escapes , Do you're home work
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Phoenix, Arizona
Chip Rogan and Rob Crawford Scam - Signature Escapes is a scam
Chip Rogan & Rob Crawford & Signature Escapes is a scam they stole my money and defrauded me and my wife, they sold mea travel club and there is no savings in fact it's not even there travel club it's another company called "Savon Resorts" when I called up to request a travel special I was disappointed to know that there was zero savings it was the exact same price on Priceline, I complained and the representative said "yeah we have been having problems with Signature Escapes lying to the customers, there is no savings the reason people get involved is to have a concierge service and we only charge $250 for the membership you paid $5740" I'm not sure who is telling the truth but someone please help me get to the bottom of this, I am willing to split the money to hire a private investigator to find the truth and who these people are. If anyone else is interested please reach out to me we need to stop these people from scamming more innocent people!
Replying to
The same thing happened to us! We are out $5k.
Now they say our membership has expired and want us to pay $199. I don't think so! I'm still paying off the $5k I put on our credit card.
If anyone knows how to get your money back we are all ears! So angry!
Jackson, Tennessee
DEAD MAN WALKING
ROB CRAWFORD FROM SIGNATURE ESCAPES HAS STOLEN MONEY FROM AT LEAST 2 DOZEN SALES PEOPLE AND EMPLOYEES FROM HIS VARIOUS TRAVEL CLUBS AROUND THE UNITED STATES HE HAS BLAMED IT ON HIS MERCHANT ACCOUNT BECAUSE OF TOO MANY CANCELLATIONS BECAUSE OF HIS COMPANY'S F RATING THE COMPANY'S NAME IS SIGNATURE ESCAPES ON THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU DO NOT EVER DO BUSINESS WITH THIS SCAM ARTIST HE IS A LIAR A THIEF AND AN A PUNK YOU BETTER HAVE EYES IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD ROB WERE COMING TO GET YOU BANG BANG WATCH OUT DEAD MAN WALKING !!
Fairfax, Virginia
Signature of Escapes won't refund my money
We attended a seminar high pressure meeting signed a contract with signature escapes, paid the $3645 via credit card. Decided the next day after doing our research and finding out the company's been in business for a very short period time with an F rating with the Better Business Bureau, we did not want anything to do with it, and sent a cancellation notice via UPS NEXT DAY AIR.
It was received within the 3 days stated on the contract and when I called on Tuesday to see why I hadn't been refunded, they assured me it would be within 10-14 business days. I still have not received the credit and every time I call, I get a recording stating they are not open even though I am calling within stated business hours. I have "chatted" online with two different people whom have assured me it has been cancelled.
Totally fed up at this point. I just want our refund
I just found out we too were scammed out of $3,845 for the same non-membership we were also presented with as what seemed in retro spec to be a fairly good deal. WRONG Please be warned about the Signature-Escapes Travel Scam.
You will not get your $100.00 Deposit each for the Cruise and Round-trip Airline Tickets for Two that was promised if you sent possible dates within the timeframe as required.
They promised but certainly DID NOT DELIVERY. SCAM IN THE WORST WAY...BEWARE EVERYONE
Fairfax, Virginia
Signature Escapes Travel club scam nationwide
Signature Escapes Vacation Travel Club is a rip off. They are unethical and scammed artists!
I paid over $6000 for this "Travel Club," Signature Escapes I call, leave a message, call and leave another message call again and leave another message. I can not get a hold of them. When I finally do they could not give me any better deals on travel than I could get on my on own. High pressure sales with no results. I am very upset. This is a breach of contract and it makes me mad!
Lets stop this before they rip off more people!
This is not right!
Katherine
Just received some scam letter in the mail from someone saying there from signature escapes free trips
There is no way I will waist. My time .
My neighbor went there yesterday and told me it was a free-for-all scam artist at their best anyway
Attorney General getting easy to move in on Signature escapes
Travel unravel.
Greensburg, Indiana
Almost Taken!!!! G. Ind.
Received the free cruise/airfare in the mail. I attended the 90min.
talk. The price went down from 9,000 to 3,400. Got my free trip but could not sign up because they really didn't have just a sign up place. I made calls and got no results.
I wish I had seen this page first. I feel so ***!!!! Thanks yal!!!! I will make sure everyone I know will get the message.
Hope this will help someone else. This company need to be exposed. They take advantage of your wanting to believe in the process.
I want to thank you for your commits. Thanks again!!!!!!
Signature Escapes
Just attend the demonstration carnival style at signature escapes fortunately there were just enough things wrong in the presentation that set us on alert. Also in looking at the facilities they are in a rental space that has minimal upfitting. The furnishings are tables and chairs that appear to be from a party rental companyat a budget hotel They look like they came to town, threw up a quick place, and could be shutdown and gone within a moments notice. When we asked questions they switched off sales people. The guy that replaced the first person made it pretty obvious taht they did not want us asking too many questions, especially if the other couples (marks?) might over hear or questions. They kept dropping the price, but things just did not ring true. After we declined their offer they hustled us out of the building pretty quickly. After reading these posts and searcing for Better Business Bureau reports I am glad we did not ***. One interesting note, they took the mail flyer that drew us in to the presentation, in hindsight I cannot help but wonder if they were trying to remove evidence that they were potentially commiting fraud through the US Postal service. I think it would be worthwhile for someone that gets one of these to make copies of the letter, get them notarized and alert the US Postal Service and the Police Department prior to attending the presenation. This maybe difficult as they try to get you into their presentation as quickly after you receive the "Prize notification" as possible. It appears that this type of operation has been popping up in markets across the US. It would be good if they are truly ripping people off if they could be caught and put out of business, and preferably behind bars. The wanted $8000 at first and a large fat man ,Tony
Gave us yhe deal of a life time. He said because we were government workers $ 2500 now cash.
We googled and left claiming our child was sick just to leave They said just sighn now everything 5 minutes , We would never buy anything from Signature Escapes after reviews on line .
Nashville, Tennessee
Travel scam on its way to Tennessee
They are in Brentwood Tennessee at the Courtyard Inn, Maryland Farms. The promise is a free cruise if you sit for the sales pitch. Apparently you best stay away but you have been warned. If it looks too good to be true it likely is not true. The report by this gentleman seems to correspond to the delivery made so far. I am staying as far away as possible, in other words taking a vacation from a potential scam.They will not let you in the room without a credit card. Now how in the world would that mean you are getting a free cruise?
Vacation Travel Club - Signature Escapes - no good
We got a complimentary stay at a local hotel and some not so free Airfare. for us sitting through a "90" minute presentation. Over 4hrs later, we were conned into buying into their Travel club. Fortually they brought the price down from $11000 to $1000. I figured from their speal that I'd make that back in one or two vacations of ---greatly discounted--- price.
There high-pressure wore us down that night and what a great waste of time the gifts are worthless to us And have so many fees that you must pay ahead of time .We cancaled the next day but still no refund. We learned a huge lesson.
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I agree. Wish I had seen this post earlier.
They were pushy and very rude. When we said we don't want to buy they started using abusive language. Don't waste your time by going there. I hope people see these posts before going and wasting time. We asked them if they were affiliated with Legacy Destinations .their old company name they did not want anybody else to hear this in their presentation same company same scam change names one month ago
Thank God for the Internet because without this information we would not have realized about Signature Escapes scamming people in Baton Rouge, And other places how do these people stay in business and not go state and federal federal penitentiary
We felt bad for one gentlemen and his wife as we overheard they were trying to get their money back and they refused . Honest people work hard for their money not to be Lied on vacation prices that don't exist shame on you Signature escapes, Formerly legacy destinations after we did our homework.
They are a complete scam they got me and my wife the same way, the names of the owners of this company were disclosed to me by the sales manager William he said they have scammed him out of $28,000 he needed to pay his sales staff. The names of the owners are "Chip Rogan" and "Rob Crowford" and they don't even own the company they just sell a franchise called "Savon Resorts" which is a membership of no value with the offices out of San Diego CA
ROB CRAWFORD IS A DEAD MAN WALKING WATCH OUT AND KEEP AN EYE OVER YOUR SHOULDER WE ARE COMING TO GET YOU BANG BANG YOUR DEAD *** ***
ROB CRAWFORD OF SIGNATURE ESCAPES IS A THIEF DO NOT EVER DO BUSINESS WITH THIS PUNK HE IS A SCAMMER HE OWES THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DOZENS OF EMPLOYEES AND HAS MANY PENDING LAWSUITS AGAINST HIM IN VARIOUS COURTS AROUND THE COUNTRY STAY AWAY FROM HIM AT ALL COSTS
Don't ever give 5000 for a claim of any discounts you have to be insane after the reviews and up front charge . Location: Signature Escapes, Inc.
2755 S. Bay ST Suite D, Eustis, FL 32726Purchased a Gold membership which was to include 100,000 reward credits that were to appear in our account for use within 48 hrs. Additionally, when I got to looking at the site everything they seemed to have told us about their company and our contract were not true. So I tried contacting them at 866-653-**** ext 818 to get out of the contract but no one would ever call back, I have been leaving emails with reservations' dept since 8-25-2013 through today, continued phone calls still nothing.
I want my money back, have told them this as a result of them breaking their contractual agreement and their unseemly way of doing business.These people have the audacity to think I would be dumb enough to sign a hotel agreement that states when I get to my hotel, that I booked 5 months prior, in Orlando, in peak season, if they tell me "oops we over booked" Signature Escapes has the right to put you in another room of lesser or greater value or better yet cancel your reservation all together and charge you some sort of fees for the financial hardship they incurred. Give me a break the only person that will be incurring a major financial hardship in this situation, along with a lot of frustration would be anyone *** enough to sign that type of an agreement, ludicrous. We are talking about major scam artist at work here. Can you please help.
Sincerely, (Personal Information Removed) this was a horrible mistake and we are filling a lawsuit and stoping payment for fraud signature escapes lies and will do anything they can for a commit now to run your credit card.
DONT Fall for a company working out of a hotel and look like carnival workers on drugs. The guy we dealt with smelled like a bottle of Vodka
:) As for any free gift you receive from any company there is always fees and taxes included. Don't complain about a so called free gift when you know there is no such thing.
This also goes for the first price that's offered. We all know that if we say we won't buy at that price that they will lower the price, just as if your purchasing a car or furniture or putting in a lower bid on a house. Come on people quit acting like it's such a scam to lower a price.
As for the vacation packages, well I purchased one. I've already used the reward credits we received when we purchased.
I've had no problem with anyone in the location in which I purchased.
I've had a wonderful experience and have already booked another vacation. :)
You are all idiots! Me and my family bought into this program, and we use it.
Oddly, it WORKS!! I don't understand, maybe it's not the company considering that is a name spread acrossed numerous groups that sell over the country. I am a very HAPPY and PLEASED consumer!
Most of you ***, didn't even by into the program and also the same most of you are pissed about the gifting portion and not the program. Oh well, can't fix ***!
These guys are working in Clarksville, Indiana today. Going for a refund tomorrow morning.....I hope.
Should have known better.
Salesman had whiskey breath. Cost me $5000.
Obviously, you must work for one of these shyster outfits. I lost $2300 to them...what they do is run this scam for a short time and then change their name and run it again.
Signature escapes must make a fortune off people as *** as me. I would have laughed if it had not been so painful in my wallet, but a year or so later, we went to another one just to see if it was as we suspected. Wonder of wonders, we got the same smooth talker we had the time before. He did not recognize us since he meets so many suckers every day, but I told him he had scammed us and that he knew this was just another scam.
He backed off and he was very nervous. It does no good to contact the AG of the state on Signature escapes ,These people literally change the name of their organization faster than you can change your shoes. I contacted the AG in Indiana and they tried, but could no longer locate the outfit.
PLEASE...DO NOT FALL FOR ANYTHING THESE PEOPLE TELL YOU.
As soon as they cash your check, they are working on their new paperwork. BEWARE.
WE JUST GOT HOME FROM ONE OF THEIR MEETING IN FORT WAYNE, IN. KNOWING HOW THIS COMPANIES ARE, WE JUST LISTENED TO THE PRESENTATION FOR OUR FREE GIFT.
LIKE THEY ALL SAY, THEY DO START LOWERING THE PRICE MORE AND MORE EVERYTIME A NO CAME OUT OF OUR MOUTH. SO PEOPLE IF YOU RECEIVE A LETTER LIKE THAT, UNLESS YOU CAN AFORD WASTING 90 MINUTES OF YOU TIME FOR A FREE TRIP, DONT GO. WE DID GO, BECAUSE WE HAVE GOTTEN LOTS OF FREE TRIPS THIS WAY, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE FIRM AND SAY NO.
ITS ALL A SCAM HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE THIS FREE GIFT.
:( :x
Debbie, we are from warsaw too and went to the presentation in ft Wayne. Did your free gift end up working or do you know yet? We just went yesterday.
Thanks,
Jacki
Information current as of Jul 13, 2013.
I bought from a company that change the name in a month and want my refund i feel ***
Company Name: SIGNATURE ESCAPES
Status: Active
Filing Date: 07/08/2013
Entity Type: FICTITIOUS NAME
File Number: G130********
Company Age: 2 Months
Filing State: Florida (FL)
Qualifying State: N/A
Registered Agent: None Listed
Principal Address:
Po Box 350699
Grand Island, FL 32735
OWNER
Legacy Properties Group Of Central Florida Inc.
3214 Spicer Ave
Grand Island, FL 32735
Count us as taken. Should have known better.
Should have, would have, could have. Got caught up with what we could do to help our kids and grandkids have the vacations they can't afford. Lots of red lights which we ignored. Prices too good to be true.
Salespeople with no business cards. Decisions had to be made immediately or at least after being worked on by 4 different salesmen who were so concerned that we not miss out on such a great deal. Invitation letter stated they had been trying to reach us. No calls from them on our answering machine.
Repeatedly stated they were not applying any pressure to buy. In my own defense, the best *** men I have ever seen/heard. The free gift was non-existent. The people at the number we were given to call for our free cruise and airfare stated they had never heard of such a thing and did not do that kind of business.
Calls to the numbers on the Signature Escapes literature were answered only by answering machines. Numerous messages left. No calls returned. Only way to get a refund, according to the contract, was to send a written request to the company within 3 days.
We spent longer than that trying to contact people by phone. Also, according to the contract,which we were not encouraged to read, (Warning. Warning. ALWAYS read the contract.) stated that in the case a refund was requested within the requirement deadline, $50 dollars would be kept for "restocking" and $200 dollars would be kept to pay for "products" given - ie: pamphlets, copy of all paperwork.
The internet connection would not recognize us as clients the first day we tried. Of course, we chaulked that up to just a paper work delay. After finally getting on line, found there was no way to communicate by phone - no number listed. Left a message expressing concern as had questions.
Did receive a return call the next day during which I expressed concerns and was told that the person calling was not the right person to address the problem but that she, Martha, would have someone call me back. (Did converse with Martha re furture trips which she answered promptly and politely.) And - no call received. So, guess what we did? We went for the presentations planned for 8 days after the one that we attended.
Three of the salesmen were there along with some other people. When I was asked if I could be helped, I replied I didn't know but ---. I went on to detail what I have written above. At no time did the salesmen ask to speak with me and my husband privately.
That surprised me as my husband is hard of hearing and unless he is looking straight at the person speaking, he cannot hear what is being said unless the speaker talks loudly. I was talking loudly so he could hear. We must have been there for 20 minutes before someone, a woman, requested that we sit down and talk with her. She had arrived only a few minutes prior to her request.
When we sat down with her she accused me of being rude for speaking loudly. I explained, more than once, the reason for the level of my voice. She threatened to call security to have us removed from the facility. I offered to go outside with her to continue the conversation.
She instructed us to sit where we were and she would go call corporate. During the time she was in another room we did not speak to anyone else. On her return, she instructed us to move into the other room to speak with her and her boss. We requested that the conversation remain in the lobby.
She declined and we joined her in the other room. A lengthy discussion followed with the boss, Kevin P###a, alternately being concerned and promising that he would get us a refund of our money, and threatening us with a police report because our presence caused potential clients to leave without listening to their presentation. He was also concerned that he was told that my husband had "flipped the bird" (I think he said "given the finger.") toward on of his salesman and that that would also have to be on the police report. Finally we were told that the president of the company would call us, initially within 24 hours, and then, at our request - if he could not call prior to tomorrow to please wait until tomorrow evening as I am scheduled for out-patient surgery in the morning.
Keven said he would see to it that the call would come at a time we would be home. He also printed his name on a piece of paper and wrote what he told us is his personal cell phone number. The woman who was there restated that she could assure us that we would get a phone call. I replied that I heard what she was saying and was will aware that she said nothing about a refund.
She made no further comments. And so, we wait. Please be assured that I am extremely embarrassed and upset that I was so gullible. Not only do I considered myself to be somewhat intelligent, I also have a reputation for being a bit of a sceptic.
Now I have to decide if I am ***, greedy, becoming demented or all three.
Stay tuned. To be continued....
and the followup is: Big Surprise! There is nothing that can be done because we tried to make phone contact during the 3 days we should have been writing a letter requesting our money back.
Better Business Bureau has received our complaint and sent it to the company address on the information. They have 14 days to respond. We have no illusions about receiving anything from these scam artists but rest assured, we will continue to tell our story to everyone who will listen. Be careful out there.
Even smart people can have an off-day and become the prey.
Incidentally, the top guy of the company is Robert Crawford, the same one who ran the former Legacy Destinations, which had to change its name because of all the lying and fraud involved in their company - at least that is what I have read. And from the dates of incorporation of this new company - Signature Escapes, (July 2013) that sounds about right.
My husband and I got caught up in this scam. We went to the hotel and listen to the sale pitch and brought into this scam.
While we was there we pull up this web site and stop the transaction and talk to the manager on duty at that time. He inform us that, this is coming from an upset employee that had just got fired. We went under the BBB.org to check them out, we could not pull the information, so the guy that was working with us to make the sale went to a web site and pull up the information on them. How he did it, I don't know.
So we let them finish the transaction.
We finish everything. When we got home I went to the site to pull up trips and see how everything work. So, what they was offering you, you can get it from other travel service like travelocity and etc...
Do not fall for this, it is very hard to get your money back from them. You call everyone on the contract, the ones that gave you their number doing the time of sign up. It takes days or weeks before you hear from anyone. What ever you do, read before signing your name to the dotted line.
You have three days to cancel your membership. We cancel our membership the next day and send it by FedEx. We resend it again certified by USPS. Remember all of this was done before three days.
The number we call at Signature Escape to cancel the contract on that same day 855-822-**** ext. 413 didn't get an answer, cancellation notice was sent to Signature Escapes, 2755 S. Bay Street Suite D, Eustis, FL 32726. After we had track the paperwork and knew they had received it we call to see when will our refund be return.
They said they had received our letter and the amount will be credit back to our card in about 2 weeks. That did not happen. Signature Escapes do not, let me repeat, do not do what they say they are going to do. This was a lesson learn, DO NOT DO BUSINESS OUT OF AN HOTEL WITH ANYONE WITH SIGNATURE ESCAPES, SAVE ON RESORTS, LLC OR ISO OMAHA NAME ON IT.
This has taken us from August 31, 2013 to now December 10, 2013 to be taken care of, thanks to our bank. Please, don't get tangle up with these companies.
Please, people....I work in the Travel Industry and see things like this happen way too often....If it seems too good to be true...it probably is! DO NOT attend any of these presentations because all they want is your credit card # and your money.
This company has taken on the same name as my legitimate business and I am receiving phone calls, emails and Facebook posts daily thinking that I am responsible.
So now, they will steal my stellar reputation in the industry, as well as your money? I think not!
I am in Louisville and got the same letter. I called and made an appointment.
Thanks to fe9474 I will not keep this appointment. I inquired as to the amount of the 'taxes and fees' for the 'free' cruise and airfare, but the lady didn't seem to have that info available.
Thank you fe9474 for making that info. available.
I got the same letter and was wanting to go. Any feedback from anyone in Louisville would be greatly appreciated. I go on the 28th of August for the 90 minute snooze fest
Don't waste your time. we spent 3 hours and had them reduce the fee to $4000 from $9995.when we got home and checked on line we found very few properties available and those that were available were quite expensive.
Even looking 1 year out, we found few available properties. Don't go and if you have made a reservation, just don't show up.
I just received a letter in the mail stating that we were going to receive a cruise from Royal Caribbean International with 2 round trip airfares (from Signature Escapes) if I call within 72 hours. I am so grateful that I found this website and all the feedback from here has made me make a very solid decision in stating ABSOLUTELY NO!!!
Thank you all for all of your informative information causing me to make a very sound decision!! Thank you!!!