Lindal Cedar Homes

we are just getting ready to replace are 4th window 1st there screens wont stay in place bad by design are new pellas work good this glass installer pointed out that the uv glass panes are installed wrong from factory green crosssection glass belongs on outside not inside!! they broke themselves one day lindall has never returned a phone call!

I bought a Lindal package through a Lindal contractor, who built my home. Little did I know the contractor canceled my order and reordered at a later date.

All the time he told me I was in the *** to have my package assembled. Turns out he was working on another house. By the time the house was finished, 3 years later, we were well over the estimate he had given. I made cuts where I could, downgrading appliances, plumbing fixtures, etc.

but we were still over budget. I refused to pay the last statement. We ended up in court. Linda would not provide the cost they billed my contractor, even when they were subpoenaed.

We had a contract for his costs plus 10%. In court it came out that he billed me 40% over what he paid Lindal.

Lindal's agreement is with their contractors and not the consumer. I won in court based on that overcharge and over billed hours, but have yet to see a penny, as he is no longer working under his previous company name.

We lost over 14000 from Lindal Cedar Homes in Fife WA years ago. I am posting this to warn anyone of their deceptive sales practice and not to sign their paperwork before getting everything in writing.

You won't be able to fight them with their clause to go through arbitration. They will lie right to your face and then take your money and run. Please call me if you would like more information on our nightmare with this company that will steel your money unconscionably.

I do wonder how they can sleep at night taking thousands and thousands of dollars from people who got absolutely nothing in return. 253*278*2619 Graham WA

We bought a Lindal Cedar Homes Plan book from Manitou Group LTD. In that book we found a house we wanted to build: the Greenbriar model. We used Microsoft Excel to frame out the dimensions with each cell representing a .5 foot scale that we used to rearrange the inner walls understanding that changing the "footprint" would cause additional cost.

After we modified the plans to what we wanted, we sent them off to The Manitou Group and asked our second Home Selection Expert, Anthony, if the turn-key cost would be around $300,000 as that is what we were looking for (our assigned Home Selection Expert kept changing!). Anthony sent us several emails asking other finishing questions which we answered. We also made some modifications of the Excel drafted plans and conveyed them to Anthony. Through the conversation, we were told that Cedar siding was more expensive than Hardi-Plank so to keep our cost down we needed to make that change so of course we opted for the Hardi-Plank. We also agreed to downgrade to shingles vs. a metal roof, again to keep the cost down.

Since our constant concern was the turn-key price we asked again, in writing this time, what the turn-key price was for building the home and that we would rather put off the project than continue if the price was too high. We were assured that the turn-key cost would "be around $300,000".

A few days before our first formal meeting with Anthony to discuss & review the recent changes, we were notified that Anthony was no longer employed there but we were assured that the CEO, Mr. Kenneth W., was "brought up to speed".

When we arrived at the Manitou Group LTD model home in Kalamazoo Michigan, we were surprised that the plans were an exact replica of the Excel worksheet and none of the subsequent conversations (except for the use Hardi-plank) made it into the design. Ken assured us that they had the changes and they would be reflected in the NEXT set of plans but that we should go ahead and sign the preliminary plans & the Purchase and Sale agreement for the Greenbriar model. Up to that point WE did all the design work!! But wanting to believe we were now in good hands with the "President" of the company, we signed.

Not being construction savvy, we thought the specification listing was all the parts we were buying and all we'd have to do is find someone to assemble it. WRONG! The list has several parts marked as NIC (Not in Contract). We found out after we got toward the end of the plans stage that what we were actually buying was only a part of the shell of the house, interior doors, trim and posts. No plumbing, electrical, Heating/Cooling or walls! The builder would have to supply the rest! Oh, and Ken would be nice enough to recommend a builder with "experience with Lindal packages".

With each step we were shown faulty plans but were assured in the next step they would be fixed. When the "Final" construction plans were shown we noticed instead of removing the pantry to make the kitchen bigger, they just extended the Loft and Kitchen into the dining room! We were at a open house party so we politely pulled Ken aside and explained the "Final" plans were STILL wrong not only the Pantry/Loft/Kitchen but the walkout lower level changes were still not made!

He assured us that he would get "Seattle" to fix it but that we should go ahead and sign them. He then pulled out an "Authorization to ship" form which he wanted us to sign so that when the plans were corrected we could proceed to permit plans etc. We were concerned they would now charge us for the plan changes and felt uncomfortable signing the form so Ken wrote the word "Corrected" to assure us we were only agreeing to proceed if the plans were corrected. These plans, having structural beams in the dining room would not be the plans the construction drawings would be based on!

This is now the first time he introduced us to a Lindal experienced builder (Kevin). At this point he gave us two builder bids, one was astronomical in price and Kevin's, athough high, was much lower. So we agreed to use Kevin as the builder being assured that his pricing included allowances for "over-runs".

In a phone conversation later, he told us an extra $10,000 would be needed now to move things along and that it would show up as part of our financing down-payment later.

Well, by the time the project got to the financing stage (now at the end of the contractual Lindal part), we finally found out the total cost of the project was not "around $300,000" but $475,000 ($75,000 was our land cost)!!!

The final issue was that the "Post and Beam" Lindal Cedar Home was really a "Stick Home" with decorative support beams vs. normal enclosed beams and the value of the home came in at $375,000 (including the value of the land). Ken told us that his other clients get financing as a "convenience" but agreed to apply a discount which came out to $10,000.

The builder reduced his contractor fee but couldn't reduce the other costs since the majority of the house was missing from Lindal's "package".

We never were given corrected plans that had the Pantry/kitchen/Loft to sign off on but instead received a .pdf that had the structural changes made but still did not have the continuously repeated lower level changes!

We met with him a total of 4 times. We were pushed through the Lindal stages but neglected to follow up with the Bank or us in a timely manner which caused us to have to resubmit our asset documentation repeatedly.

This whole project was a nightmare and because we were too afraid to take legal action sooner, ended up in a worse mess. Now that we are terminating the contract, Lindal and Manitou are playing games by ignoring our desire to terminate, threatening that the the "package" was already being assembled (but could not provide detail to prove it) and could now accumulate costs for being on "Hold", accused us of making a phone call we didn't make, nor would they consider giving a portion of our deposit back. And the extra $10,000 to be applied to our down-payment? It apparently went to toward all the hard work Ken did for us.

Run away from Manitou Group LTD, Ken W. and Lindal Cedar Homes!

In November of 2007 we started our disappointing adventure with Lindal Cedar Homes by visiting the model home in Seattle and received a quote of $185 per sf on a standard plan. With modifications we planned to be on target to meet our budget. Unfortunately, we trusted this local business, but that trust was misplaced. If we had done our homework we would have discovered how Lindal really operates and could have avoided this very costly experience.

We purchased our lot in early 2008 and our Seattle Cedar Homes sales rep did a site visit. After determining that the plan worked on our property, we rearranged bedrooms, removed most of the decking, detached and raised the garage and added a studio above it. Overall we stayed within the footprint of the original plan except for the addition of a 2 ft extension bay window.

What's so important to emphasize here is that from day one Seattle Cedar Homes refused to give us individual written costs on the materials and purposefully kept everything vague and confusing on the modifications, so we never knew where we stood. This situation left us totally vulnerable to pricing games and set us up to have our deposit unfairly confiscated later, even though we received no materials.

In April 2008 we received the first rough draft of our changes and were given a materials cost of $197,559. We decided to go with non-Lindal windows/doors and were given a credit of $12,051. We also deleted the post and beam garage - changing it to "standard construction" - and removed cedar liner in some areas. Later in the month we asked for new totals. The new calculation for materials was now more than $40,000 higher than the original cost. With all of the reductions how can the materials cost more? We're told that it still doesn't account for ALL of the changes and that we'll have time to recalculate later.

On May 4 we hand over our $33,600 deposit. The materials list still includes the original windows and doors that we thought had been deleted in April. We're promised that this isn't by any means final and we will get the grand total after the pricing department has calculated everything for us. Later we try to reduce costs further but because Lindal hasn't given us an updated materials total, we have no idea if we're within our budget. We still lack any written documentation on the changes and the rep distracts us by saying, "our house will probably make one of the new Lindal books!" Although we have stated all along that there will be no financing, he suggests getting a loan for the 3rd time to cover their cost overruns. We're not impressed!

In June the preliminary drawings are ready but we are now four months into this project and still don't know what the total cost of our new home will be! In September we apply for the permit and finally get the change order of -$15.850 for the deleted windows. After all this time we still do not have the final total for our modifications and it becomes apparent that Lindal does not want us to know!

On November 3 our building permit is approved. We contact our salesman who still doesn't have our materials cost down on paper. After some wrangling we get a verbal "approximate" cost from him. With the latest contractor's bid the total cost is now $270,000 over what we had budgeted. Our $185.00 per sq ft price had risen to $266.00 per sq.ft.!!

The following weekend Steve goes to SCH to see if it's possible to take $270,000 out of the project. We discover that we're not the only ones with budget problems since during his visit a couple stops by to get help modifying their plans due to their high cost overruns! Later via email we suggest several more reductions but the salesman admits that he can't tell us what a stick of wood costs because Lindal's prices are "bundled"! So, we're finally getting to the crux of the whole pricing problem. It's becoming apparent that he can't help us because he doesn't know!

In mid November we call our salesman for a new total. He seems paralyzed and confused about how to handle the situation and suggests that we get financing to cover the difference, for the 4th time! Things get heated and we decide that we're going to have to build only the garage or walk away from the entire project. He tells us that we can't use our plans and that Lindal will be keeping our $33,600 deposit!

Talk about unfair and deceptive business practices! Lindal hides all the figures until the point of no return, then they spring the final amount on you when it's contractually too late to back out, and you have to either continue with the huge unjustified price increases or forfeit your money!

As a last resort, Lindal had us meet with another dealer/builder to try to "save" our deal. This exercise was more of the same, as the builder purposely lowballed the cost, and omitted several items plus sales tax. We were surprised to find out when checking his references that previous homeowners complained of the same pricing problems and other critical job issues.

By late November we made our decision to end this nightmare and hired an architect and engineer. On the bright side, the cost to build our newly designed dream home is $188.00 per sq. ft. for an enormous savings of more than $300,000 over Lindal's inflated price. It's been a huge relief to know the true cost to design and build our project, something that Lindal makes sure you don't know until after you've signed on the dotted line! Our message to those who are just starting: Keep your peace of mind and your money and do it yourself.

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It's been nearly two years since we've pulled the plug on Lindal and their tactics. We are in court with them now and still waiting for them to do the right thing and refund our deposit and compensate us for the extra costs that we incurred due to deceptive and misleading sales tactics. We'd love to hear from anyone who is in the state of Washington who has had the same or similar experience with Seattle Cedar Homes or any other Washington State dealer. If we don't let their deceptive practices be made public, they will continue to take deposits from consumers and deliver nothing but headaches.

One more important point. If you still think that you to enter into the black hole with Lindal, make certain that you get EVERYTHING in writing. They don't tell you what is included and what isn't included, nor will they give you an exact amount until after you've given them your deposit. Once they have your money and you realize that you're not getting what you thought you were going to get, you are bound by Arbitration which means that you must spend thousands of dollars to recover your deposit.

My dad bought a Lindal sunroom after he retired. He had kept the brochure for years, and this was his dream. I'm writing this complaint because he is now in a nursing home, and we had to spend $16,000 to rebuild this very expensive room due to water damage and bad construction. It was like paying twice.

As we found out, the Lindal dealer/builder was a scam artist - like many more we have read about on the internet. (See sundesign123.com or lindalripoffs.com for a wealth of information about Lindal's abuse of the customer.) To cut corners he bought local, cheaper glass and told us it was under the Lindal warranty. He also skimped on basic materials. The room was so drafty and moldy that we urged my father to stay in the living room to avoid getting sick. Every single glass panel failed, and both endwalls had to be ripped out, rebuilt and treated for toxic mold.

We tried to talk my dad out of this purchase because it was so much more expensive than going with local builders, but he was brainwashed by the pretty pictures. I would urge consumers to think twice before doing a kit. Stick with an established local contractor. You'll save money and have some accountability when things go wrong.