123employee Reviews

New Reviewer

Nov 30, 2021 Laurie B Xlf

Not happy with service

The assistant assigned to me claimed to be an expert. I needed help setting up my Etsy shop. Three days after giving 123 nearly $600 for 40 hours of work, the assistant wants me to advance him $200 to work at home. At first, I was impressed with his work, but then I started to notice that he was not doing enough work to justify the money I paid him. He filled up my store with mostly Christmas mugs, 29 of all the same design. Another time of advancing him $150 which cost $10 to send by PayPal, in the first 2 days all he did was 4 posts. I will never hire these people again.

User's recommendation: Do not hire this company, they don't even give you a chance to interview different assistants first to make your own choice.

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#3110184

Loss

$900

Preferred solution

Price reduction

Sep 30, 2015 PissedConsumer708518 of Las Vegas, NV

This is LAME

5.0

This is so lame. I have been a client of 123Employee for nearly 5 years. I have 3 agents that I hired after seeing Daven Michaels speak at an event in Orlando. Over the years of course we have had a few issues as this is a people business and people will make mistakes, BUT the staff at 123Employee ALWAYS make it right. Honestly this is one of the best companies I have ever dealt with and I love all the content Daven and his team sends. I give them a big thumbs up. Thanks everyone at 123 Employee. You rock.

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1 comment

Sep 30, 2015 PissedConsumer1041413 #1041413

I would agree, this is lame. I have used 123 off and on over the last couple years for data entry.

I have been happy.

No problems. I recommend them.

1 0

#708518

Reason of review

Good quality

Jul 21, 2015 PissedConsumer669651 of Monterey Park, CA

123Employee.com Is A Ripoff Company

1.0

I was lead to this company as a bonus offer I accepted from an affiliate offer. The affiliate stated it was giving me a free virtual assistant, and a link from them took me to 123Employee. However, as I inquired with them they told me what I was offered was only a certain amount off a package I had to purchase. They attempted to upsell me on a higher service for VA (virtual assistant) hiring. I refused, letting them know I don't earn that amount of money. I did, however, opted to use their service of article writing, which I noticed was only $11.00, so I entered my credit card number for THAT service ONLY! Actually, I wrote the article myself and all I wanted them to do was just "tighten" it up a bit...or so I thought. I then received an invoice (#56875) dated April 6, 2015, which was fine with me. When the article came back though, it was worst than when I had initially sent it to them, so I returned it for correction. It came back to me again STILL with the Filipino MISUNDERSTANDING of words and terms, so I just made the adjustments myself; I made a note never to use this service again. After that, I started receiving emails for all different types of services. In other words, they had me in what's called a "funnel" in network marketing terms. In this funnel, one is subject to receiving one offer after another sent automatically from an autoresponder. Lo and behold, on June 3, 2015 I received another invoice, and thought it may be just a follow-up copy of the $11.00 invoice for the article writing. Much to my surprise, however, this invoice (#58397) dated June 3, 2015 was for a WHOPPING $397.00, an amount I, as a partially disabled Army veteran living off a paltry, fixed monthly VA disability check, can ill-afford. I've made steps to obtain a refund but up to now have received nothing but emails saying they've attempted to contact me. I called AGAIN today (323-214-****) and left a message with a woman calling herself Kim (kim.mclain@***.com). I also cc'd the following: Davin Michaels, davenmichaels1@***.com, Phoebe Heather billing@***.com, as well as the standard billing dept email address - billing@***.com. In short, going through what I have up to now with this company sends up many red flags and lets me know this is a company NOT TO BE TRUSTED. Coach Melvin

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3 comments

Dec 09, 2016 PissedConsumer1252777 #1252777

mine is simple,ask for a refund 3 times and they black list my email, and refuse it

0 0

Oct 29, 2015 PissedConsumer1055454 #1055454

*NOTICE OF COMPLAINT*

Please take notice that 123Employee, INC has initiated a Complaint against this Post due to alleged violations of Pissed Consumer’s Terms of Use (http://www.pissedconsumer.com/tos.txt) pursuant to Pissed Consumer’s Legitimacy Verification Program. To receive a copy of the Complaint send an email that includes the review number for this Post to lvp@***.com requesting a copy.

You, the Poster, have a right to respond to the Complaint to establish the truth of the Post’s statements. If you intend to respond, you have 20 days from the date this Notice was posted to answer the Complaint. The Answer

Form (https://s3.amazonaws.com/pissedconsumer/legal/LVP+Answer+Form.p df) must be submitted to lvp@***.com within 20 days of the date this Notice was posted. Failure to submit an Answer within 20 days waives your right to participate in the Legitimacy Verification Program as to this particular Complaint.

All Legitimacy Verification Program disputes are decided by an independent attorney who is not an employee of Pissed Consumer and whose firm has contracted with Pissed Consumer to provide attorneys who will serve as Third-Party Neutrals in conformity with the rules of the Legitimacy Verification Program. Pissed Consumer WILL NOT reveal your identify or email address to 123Employee, INC without your express consent or pursuant to a subpoena or court order. For more information regarding the Legitimacy Verification Program, please refer to the program’s rules found at http://www.pissedconsumer.com/static/legitimacy-verification-program- rules-and-conditions.html.

LVP ID: 15-k0017.

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Sep 07, 2015 PissedConsumer1030761 #1030761

I'm a former VA of 123Employee and I definitely agree with this one. It may sound free at first but project managers will upsell you for higher VA service giving reasons like you need to upgrade because your VA need to work more so you could earn money, since you subscribed for a program which made you think you could earn then you feel you need to upgrade your VA service.

One thing you didn't know that the VA IS NOT trained (properly) for the program you subscribed and you will just notice sooner that your program doesn't work and you feel you need to cancel. . then the project manager will somehow convince you to give another shot and change VA (but the thing you didn't know is that they will just hire new VA with a script with confidence to tell you that they are experienced so they could win your trust back). And the articles?

we are just using Article spinners online for free and just correct few mistakes thats why the content sucks. 123 Employee has good VA's before, I could even consider myself one of it. . but the company doesn't know how to keep us to the point the one client sees how good the VA is, they definitely hire it outside 123 and give best offer.

123 just give their VAs $6 not per hour but per day. .yes per day, and If there are still VAS left there.

. Im sure its not good as we are before.

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#669651

Location

Monterey Park, California

Cons

I did not like their handling of my issue

Reason of review

Poor customer service

Loss

$397

Preferred solution

Full refund

Jun 24, 2015 PissedConsumer655746 of Suisun City, CA

Request to Cancel with no response.

I purchased this program through a webinar hosted just this past Thursday night, June 18th, 2015. I didn't necessarily have a problem with them or their product until I attempted to contact them to cancel within my 3 day right of rescension on Monday, June 22, 2015, not even taking into consideration their 30 day return policy. I left several messages. Mind you, up until this point I had only received my purchase confirmation. I was told only one person by the name of Kim could process my cancellation and refund. Of course she wasn't available, so I left three separate messages with other reps and even emailed her directly. All of a sudden I received a welcome email and a call from LJ, the one in the webinar. She was very nice and that gave me hope. I explained to her I wanted to cancel and she stated she would take care of it for me and should receive an email confirmation by that afternoon. I waited until the afternoon of the next day and still no confirmation. I tried calling and of course her voice mail continued to pick up after the first ring all day long during business hours. I left another message and all of a sudden another email showed up about building a list from them. The same email was sent just the day before. I was going to cancel with hopes to return to use their services later when I was a bit more ready for it. Now, however, they have left a very bad taste in my mouth. I am concerned that their delay tactics are not an accident but an attempt to delay my cancellation with hopes I will change my mind. This is poor customer service and I don't know that I can trust them with my business. I still have not received an email confirming my cancellation/refund as of this entry.

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1 comment

Oct 29, 2015 PissedConsumer1055451 #1055451

*NOTICE OF COMPLAINT*

LVP ID: 15-k0017.

0 0

#655746

Cons

Or no response at all
Poor response time

Reason of review

Poor customer service

Loss

$497

Preferred solution

Full refund

Jun 22, 2015 PissedConsumer654374 of Las Vegas, NV

Pretty sure my life is awesome because of these guys!

Obviously that bad review is full of lies posted by a competitor... The competitor even had their own VA draft this (basing this off the poor grammar). I've been using 123Employee for a little over a year now and my single VA has almost doubled my business (software engineering) by posting all these blogs and youtube videos that funnel people to my site and the VA filters my opportunities so I only focus on hot prospects. Say what you want about them but their service is amazing and I doubt I would ever have an American employee treat me with such respect. Oh and my employee seems to provide quite well for her family and very happy with her income. So pretty *** sure this is BS!!! Want some financial freedom and more time on your hands? Give these guys a shot! They *** changed my life!!

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#654374

Location

Las Vegas, Nevada

Reason of review

I make way more and work way less lol

New Reviewer

Sep 04, 2013 Carolene Aqf

123employee - Employment Services Review from Davao, Davao

LVP CASE ID: 15-k0017 – DECISION On October 26, 2015, Complainant, 123Employee, submitted a complaint in accordance with the Legitimacy Verification Program (“LVP”). The complaint alleged that Post ID 444898 (the “Post”) contained statements in violation of Section 2 of Pissed Consumer's Terms of Use. The Posts' authors were offered an opportunity to respond to the complaint, as provided in LVP Rule 9. The materials submitted by the parties constitute the LVP Record. Having considered the LVP Record, the Third Party Neutral finds and holds as follows: Post ID 444898 dated September 4, 2013, it is more likely than not that the statements in the Post are defamatory and inaccurate, and therefore, violate Pissed Consumer's Terms of Use. Accordingly, Post ID 444898 found at http://123employee.pissedconsumer.com/stop-the-scam-123employee-201309****4898.html should be removed in its entirety and the URL should be changed to remove reference to the Complainant. Date: November 23, 2015

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11 comments

Mar 21, 2016 PissedConsumer1131698 #1131698

I paid for the service at 123employee.com of a virtual assistant (VA) for $997.00/per. I gave the VA and the organization was given access to my personal information, accounts, and passwords.

During the first official month of service 123employee.com chose to fire my VA because she accessed my personal information and attempted to contact me outside of the organization for employment.

The VA attempted to contact me multiple times and requested that I pay her directly. This violated my agreement with 123employee and I felt my personal information was in Jeopardy.

I asked for a refund from 123employee.com because my time was wasted from having to train and employee that they had left me in a very short time. 123employee refused to give me a refund and decided to not communicate with me regarding giving me a refund.

I have canceled my service with 123employee.com.

They still have not issued me a refund and they are just a big waste of time.

Let's set the record straight BY ACTUALLY TELLING THE TRUTH. How would you have access to anything from the FBI??

Hi, I did not know about this communication and Trey is not my employee, but he is your partner/affiliate. I have never met Trey before I signed up through his affiliate for 123Employee and I did not know who Trey was until I signed up after hearing an interview with him a Daven Michaels. AND I am of course not his Mom.

I think you are confused because we have similar last name. Although I beleive is last name is spelt with an "s". This is not my words or communication between you and your partner, Trey Woods. Trey Woods is an affiliate of 123employee.com.

I purchased your service through his affiliate link. In accordance with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), you are responsible for what your affiliate, Trey Woods says and does here. I want a full refund at this point. 123employee.com violated my trust and I intend to pursue this to the fullest extent until I get a refund.

Please reply with how you will send me a refund at least the fee of $997.00. I have not gone to the FTC yet, but I presume I will. Please just refund the money to my credit card.

Please just give me a refund you will continue to have to keep fighting with me and soon the FTC. Sincerely!

0 0

Oct 29, 2015 PissedConsumer1055448 #1055448

*NOTICE OF COMPLAINT*

LVP ID: 15-k0017.

0 0

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#444898

Location

Davao, Davao

Loss

$999

New Reviewer

Jun 30, 2013 Laythan Yat

STOP THEIF 123Employee.com

Update by user Aug 25, 2013

Hi,

I did not know about this communication and Trey Woods is not my employee, but he is your partner/affiliate. AND I am of course not his Mom.

This is not my words or communication between you and your partner, Trey Woods.

Trey Woods is an affiliate of 123employee.com. I purchased your service through his affiliate link.

In accordance with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), you are responsible for what your affiliate, Trey Woods says and does here.

I want a full refund at this point.

123employee.com violated my trust and I intend to pursue this to the fullest extent until I get a refund.

Please reply with how you will send me a refund at least the fee of $997.00. I have not gone to the FTC yet, but I presume I will.

Please just refund the money to my credit card.

Sincerely!

Original review posted by user Jun 30, 2013

I paid for the service at 123employee.com of a virtual assistant (VA) for $997.00/per. I gave the VA and the organization was given access to my personal information, accounts, and passwords. During the first official month of service 123employee.com chose to fire my VA because she accessed my personal information and attempted to contact me outside of the organization for employment. The VA attempted to contact me multiple times and requested that I pay her directly. This violated my agreement with 123employee and I felt my personal information was in Jeopardy. I asked for a refund from 123employee.com because my time was wasted from having to train and employee that they had left me in a very short time. 123employee refused to give me a refund and decided to not communicate with me regarding giving me a refund. I have canceled my service with 123employee.com.

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8 comments

Oct 29, 2015 PissedConsumer1055449 #1055449

*NOTICE OF COMPLAINT*

LVP ID: 15-k0017.

0 0

Sep 03, 2013 PissedConsumer710761 #710761

Lol. 123Employee is merely a scam. As far as the what I have know their CEO Daven Michaels tells lie to all the clients and for the upcoming clients. Daven Michaels never owns a company nor the 123Employee agents in the Philippines. He is just a marketer, he markets the 123Employee all over the globe as if it is owned by him.

here’s what the real situation of a client when they will subscribed to 123Employee.

Clients are classified into categories. These are the normal clients who paid the normal packages, Affiliated clients which are from the affiliates of 123 such as the jack bosch, Anthony morrison (fast cash commission), The Lyttle sisters and many more from their referrals partners, The VIP clients which are some clients from Daven Michaels’s personal coaching, The old and loyal clients and the big named companies. So when a client orders a package they will set an appointment then tackles about what are the clients concerns and wants for a VA to handle a specific tasks. Automatically the HR of 123Employee sited a project manager who can deal with it. (A project manager of 123employee are the senior employees who knows more than enough compare to an ordinary agent). So what the HR would tell to a client is :”The project manager is good and can deal to whatever the clients needs” afterwards the HR will pass the phone or set another appointment for the client to talk to the Project Manager. As if it is now set the client and the Project manager will now tackle what are the client’s need to be worked for. afterwards the Project manager will get an agent/VA to handle the client’s tasks. Then the tasks are now performed daily until the client surrenders in the services.

This is now the worst thing that happens in 123Employee. The Clients never know the real backgrounds of the VA’s because it is fake. The Information given are fake. example: The VA is in 3 years or more that has been working in the company, some educational backgrounds are not real, SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE are all lies. Infact 123Employee never had a special training on their VA/AGENTS. 80% of their agents are new. Agents can handle clients even their status are just trainees with a daily compensation of 100PHP or $2 per day. All answer and suggestions will depend on their senior agent or PM’s which has more experience than the new Agents. Somehow their End Day Report are fake and edited.

Their pricing is to high but they can’t give enough compensation to their Employees who worked for them.

Salary calculation:

normal agents:

$7 dollars per 8 hours shift – can be deducted if have some lates.

10 percent night difference since the employees are working 12midnight till 9Am Philippine time.

additional $25 if complete attendance without 3 lates for the whole month cycle.

SO approximately $200 per month salary if you get the $25 incentives. However their are some deductions made such as some insurance. then the payout time is divided every 2weeks so a normal will only get less than $100 every 15 days. How cruel it is.

Those are just SOME of the info’s I have from them.

So all I can say to them is THEY ARE DISGUSTING.

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Aug 24, 2013 PissedConsumer705848 #705848

I have been using virtual assistance since 2007 and am VERY HAPPY with my experiences with 123employee.com. I trust 123 and their team. I trust the VA that I interviewed and hired.

I have had full time assistance for years who have helped me in many ways. I have more time and can delegate the repetitive tasks that take up much of my day.

The assistant that I have right now has been with me since 2010. Today he arrived 20 minutes early and greeted me through Google Hangouts (chat). I was overloaded with tasks today, so he delightfully extended his work day with me for one additional hour.

Every few months I express my gratitude and send a small bonus $20 (a US $20 bonus is HUGE once it is exchanged into PH currency) or so which means allot to the VA. 123employee gives 100% of bonus money directly to my VA.

123 provides my VA with a computer, high speed Internet, his IT support, a phone, cubicle etc.. I had my VA print out maps of the areas I work and put them in his cubicle so that he is familiar with the California cities that we are dealing with.

Here are some tasks that I trust my VA to do:

-billing.. he takes my notes in Evernote and copies them into a Quickbooks invoice. He tallies the billable hours (perfectly) and selects the proper customer and appropriate trip charges. If the customer has a payment on file with us, he processes the payment and applies it to the invoice.

-paperwork such as filling out forms such as rebates, tax forms, applications. He prints them to my printer once I approve them.

-make phone calls.. call vendors, competitors for market research, tech support, phone companies, follow ups on everything.

-do research via Internet.. for example, call 4 vendors and check stock and price

-pay bills such as credit cards, phone bills, vendor bills, etc.

-RMA (return merchandise).. check with Dell and get credit for a part that we don’t need. Print a UPS label to my printer so that I can affix to the box and drop off.

-make purchases after researching.. for example Toner, headsets

I could go and on. If you are new to VA’s, it is important to make a list first of the tasks you wish to turn over and when they setup a few interviews, see which candidate an fill all of your needs.

I just wanted to put in my feedback. I hope that this helps.

-VERY HAPPY, LONG TERM CLIENT!

0 0

Aug 05, 2013 PissedConsumer693745 #693745

Lets set the record straight here. This comment was posted by Rosetta Wood. Our client was Trey Wood. Mom paid the bill

We take stealing clients and employees very seriously at 123Employe. 123 has spent millions of dollars on infrastructure to build our company and we take very serious measures when it comes to protecting our business.

In the early days when we opened there was not broadband internet in homes in the Philippines. Now that there is internet in homes it has created an adversarial relationship between our employees and our clients. Obviously there is an incentive for our clients to run away with our employees. Our clients can save a little money and the employee gets lured away with the enticement of possibly making more money. We rarely have this issue as most of our clients and prospects are honest, but a few are not.

When Trey signed up for our serivces he received this disclaimer:

Terms and Conditions :

Internet security laws are very strict in the Philippines to protect the interests of clients like you and companies like 123Employee that invest millions of dollars in facilities and training.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE: if a VA attempts steal you OR if YOU try and lure / steal one of your employee away from 123Employee your agent is liable for prosecution and imprisonment. Per Philippines law, it is considered THEFT and taken extremely seriously.

Reminder: As part of our service agreement you have agreed NOT to attempt to steal the client away from 123Employee. Any attempt to do so can result in legal action and a penalty of $12,000 equivalent to 12 months of full time service.

In addition, all our employees sign before doing our clients tasks. All virtual assistants sign company documents that state we will take legal action for:

* Leaking confidential data

* Client data theft

* Client theft (if a Virtual Assistant attempts / or steals a client from 123Employee)

* Misuse and sharing of client data

Clients can request that their Virtual Assistant can sign NDA's with if required.

This is a chat transcript obtained by the NBI the Philipines equivelant of the FBI, between you and our former agent:

[6/4/2013 8:34:13 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: ?

[6/4/2013 8:34:48 AM] emelyn basila: Hi Trey it's me alice rio

[6/4/2013 8:35:22 AM] emelyn basila: this is my real name emelyn basila

[6/4/2013 8:35:41 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Call me

[6/4/2013 8:35:59 AM] emelyn basila: yes sure

[6/4/2013 8:42:42 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: u there?

[6/4/2013 8:43:06 AM] emelyn basila: yes trey

[6/4/2013 8:43:18 AM] emelyn basila: I'm checking the headset

[6/4/2013 8:43:23 AM] emelyn basila: I call you now

[6/4/2013 8:46:29 AM] emelyn basila: are you close to daven the CEO of 123employee trey

[6/4/2013 8:47:04 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: No, not really.

[6/4/2013 8:47:44 AM] emelyn basila: good! who reffer you to 123employee trey

[6/4/2013 8:48:04 AM] emelyn basila: but you know daven ? trey

[6/4/2013 8:48:53 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I am a night club promoter and he was a night club promoter.

[6/4/2013 8:50:07 AM] emelyn basila: ok but your not really close to him?

[6/4/2013 8:50:23 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Nope.

[6/4/2013 8:50:35 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Don't worry you can trust me.

[6/4/2013 8:50:47 AM] emelyn basila: thank you trey

[6/4/2013 8:51:00 AM] emelyn basila: lets keep it this secret please

[6/4/2013 8:51:36 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: No, problem. I want you to keep your job. :P

[6/4/2013 8:52:30 AM] emelyn basila: I also send you email if you have something personal to tell me please email me to my personal account not my 123account

[6/4/2013 8:53:02 AM] emelyn basila: I have something to tell you trey

[6/4/2013 8:53:08 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok

[6/4/2013 8:53:29 AM] emelyn basila: I'm planning to leave at 123 employee

[6/4/2013 8:53:53 AM] emelyn basila: I'm worried about you and Rosetta

[6/4/2013 8:54:14 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok. Thanks for telling me. Why are you about to leave?

[6/4/2013 8:55:30 AM] emelyn basila: anyway not yet final , theres so many reason why I want to leave 123 employee

[6/4/2013 8:56:28 AM] emelyn basila: I'm just concern cuz if ever I leave 123 they will give you to another VA with the same sodu name Alice Rio

[6/4/2013 8:57:26 AM] emelyn basila: maybe you expect that the VA working with you is still me but the truth is not it's another VA

[6/4/2013 8:57:42 AM] emelyn basila: It's another Alice Rio

[6/4/2013 8:57:44 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Do you have 30 minutes to finger-talk now? Why are you some reasons why you want to leave?

[6/4/2013 8:58:00 AM] emelyn basila: no problem trey

[6/4/2013 8:58:18 AM] emelyn basila: I can stay more than 30 minutes

[6/4/2013 8:58:28 AM] emelyn basila: I'm on internet cafe

[6/4/2013 8:59:28 AM] emelyn basila: fisrt and foremost I find hard time to look for a nanny for my son

[6/4/2013 9:00:00 AM] emelyn basila: second I don't like the treatment of 123employee

[6/4/2013 9:00:28 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Are you married? boyfriend?

[6/4/2013 9:01:05 AM] emelyn basila: no I'm not married trey

[6/4/2013 9:01:41 AM] emelyn basila: and I don't have a good realtionship to the father of my son

[6/4/2013 9:02:02 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Are you single now?

[6/4/2013 9:02:14 AM] emelyn basila: somethings like that

[6/4/2013 9:02:17 AM] emelyn basila: single mother

[6/4/2013 9:02:29 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok. I like your voice. :) Can you send me a picture of you?

[6/4/2013 9:03:20 AM] emelyn basila: I never upload my picture trey but maybe soon I uploaded for you

[6/4/2013 9:04:03 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: :/ You can google pictures of me.

[6/4/2013 9:04:22 AM] emelyn basila: okay wait

[6/4/2013 9:04:31 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: http://www.linkedin.com/in/treywoods

[6/4/2013 9:05:48 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to see a picture of you. You can trust me. It will be fine.

[6/4/2013 9:07:14 AM] emelyn basila: infearness even your black but your handsome

[6/4/2013 9:08:42 AM] emelyn basila: soon trey promise.... I don't have any picture on internet cuz I'm afraid..

[6/4/2013 9:09:20 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Please trust me.

[6/4/2013 9:09:25 AM] emelyn basila: you know waht Ireally like your voice it's sounds like a VJ

[6/4/2013 9:10:39 AM] emelyn basila: Iknow i can Trust you... I will tell you if ever i upload a picture on internet

[6/4/2013 9:11:18 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: You have no picture. Why not?

[6/4/2013 9:12:07 AM] emelyn basila: I'm afraid trey...maybe my picture can be use to scandal I don't like

[6/4/2013 9:12:31 AM] emelyn basila: :(

[6/4/2013 9:12:52 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: No way.

[6/4/2013 9:14:01 AM] emelyn basila: your not busy trey?

[6/4/2013 9:14:19 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: No

[6/4/2013 9:14:50 AM] emelyn basila: anyway trey can I ask you something?

[6/4/2013 9:14:54 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Yes

[6/4/2013 9:15:18 AM] emelyn basila: how much you pay 123employee?

[6/4/2013 9:15:43 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Why do you want to work for us outside of 123?

[6/4/2013 9:16:41 AM] emelyn basila: even if I'm not in 123employee anymore if you need my help I'm willing to help you

[6/4/2013 9:17:19 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I would hire you now if I could see a picture of you. :)

[6/4/2013 9:17:23 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to see your picture because you sound like you are gorgeous.

[6/4/2013 9:17:34 AM] emelyn basila: are you kedding?

[6/4/2013 9:18:14 AM] emelyn basila: I can't work for at home I don't have my own unit

[6/4/2013 9:18:48 AM] emelyn basila: I can finger talk to you somethimes if ever I'm on internet cafe

[6/4/2013 9:19:20 AM] emelyn basila: honestly trey I'm worried to leave you and rosetta

[6/4/2013 9:19:29 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Why is that?

[6/4/2013 9:21:04 AM] emelyn basila: it's not good... I know your new to 123employee if ever I leave another VA will handle you It's another training

[6/4/2013 9:21:19 AM] emelyn basila: you will just waste more money

[6/4/2013 9:23:25 AM] emelyn basila: That's why I'm telling you in advance that I'm planning to leave beacause I don't want you to expect all the time that the person you're working with is still me but the truth is not it's another Alice Rio

[6/4/2013 9:23:34 AM] emelyn basila: I don't like that trey

[6/4/2013 9:24:06 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: OK. Do you have a computer for yourself at home?

[6/4/2013 9:24:19 AM] emelyn basila: no I dont have

[6/4/2013 9:24:46 AM] emelyn basila: I have loptop before but I lost it

[6/4/2013 9:25:01 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: oh No!

[6/4/2013 9:25:21 AM] emelyn basila: it was steal by somebody

[6/4/2013 9:25:37 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I wish you had a personal computer. I would hire you. Steal it back. :)

[6/4/2013 9:26:11 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I really like you Emz. I am just tough on you because we are at work.

[6/4/2013 9:26:21 AM] emelyn basila: I want to have of course but not now I can't afford

[6/4/2013 9:26:43 AM] emelyn basila: why you like me?

[6/4/2013 9:27:39 AM] emelyn basila: maybe 3years from now trey I can buy my own

[6/4/2013 9:27:45 AM] emelyn basila: unit

[6/4/2013 9:27:55 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I think you are a good person and nice pesonality. Just you contacting me here right now shows you have great character.

[6/4/2013 9:28:25 AM] emelyn basila: thank you trey

[6/4/2013 9:29:03 AM] emelyn basila: maybe Im nice in some ways but not in other ways

[6/4/2013 9:29:48 AM] emelyn basila: I don't know if I'm really good... people always told me that I have agood character..

[6/4/2013 9:30:22 AM] emelyn basila: I do'nt know what they have seen on me why they can say that to me

[6/4/2013 9:31:31 AM] emelyn basila: I'm just very concern tothose people which is near in my heart.

[6/4/2013 9:31:43 AM] emelyn basila: I do'nt want them to hurt

[6/4/2013 9:33:28 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Do you think you make a good girlfriend?

[6/4/2013 9:33:50 AM] emelyn basila: why girlfriend?

[6/4/2013 9:34:38 AM] emelyn basila: I do'nt know

[6/4/2013 9:35:24 AM] emelyn basila: but one thing I can tell you trey I'm a very downhearted person

[6/4/2013 9:35:40 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Why do you say that?

[6/4/2013 9:37:13 AM] emelyn basila: It's the only attitude I notice to myself

[6/4/2013 9:38:17 AM] emelyn basila: I don't know why... maybe beacause I'm afraid of fighting

[6/4/2013 9:38:53 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Are you a lover, not a fighter?

[6/4/2013 9:39:20 AM] emelyn basila: I'm alover of course I'm afraid to fight

[6/4/2013 9:39:44 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Oh. Why are you afraid?

[6/4/2013 9:40:15 AM] emelyn basila: I don't like fighting trey Promise

[6/4/2013 9:40:48 AM] emelyn basila: fighting is my weakness

[6/4/2013 9:41:33 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to see the ways you are stronger and not nice, babe. Have you been to the USA? I know I can turn you into a bad girl.

[6/4/2013 9:43:32 AM] emelyn basila: I never been to USA trey..I have a strong characteristic in other ways but not strong in fighting..

[6/4/2013 9:43:49 AM] emelyn basila: I really don't like fighting trey

[6/4/2013 9:44:00 AM] emelyn basila: and I'm not a bad girl

[6/4/2013 9:44:45 AM] emelyn basila: I'm not a kind of girl who likes social life..

[6/4/2013 9:44:54 AM] emelyn basila: I'm very simple person

[6/4/2013 9:45:40 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: That's great! I have been looking for a friend like you.

[6/4/2013 9:46:01 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Most of the girls I meet are party girls. They do out and drink.

[6/4/2013 9:46:06 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't drink.

[6/4/2013 9:46:19 AM] emelyn basila: I don't drink too

[6/4/2013 9:46:20 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: They dance in the night club.

[6/4/2013 9:46:33 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't dance all sexually.

[6/4/2013 9:46:33 AM] emelyn basila: I don't like that

[6/4/2013 9:47:10 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: They try to sleep with me right away. I don't really like to sleep with girls on the first dat.

[6/4/2013 9:47:26 AM] emelyn basila: why?

[6/4/2013 9:48:01 AM] emelyn basila: some guys like a girl who sleep with them on first date

[6/4/2013 9:48:47 AM] emelyn basila: why you don't like? ... as far as what I know USA is a liberited country

[6/4/2013 9:49:47 AM] emelyn basila: people in uSa are liberated

[6/4/2013 9:49:57 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Are you 27?

[6/4/2013 9:50:17 AM] emelyn basila: 26 trey... how about you ?

[6/4/2013 9:50:25 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I'm 29.

[6/4/2013 9:51:00 AM] emelyn basila: don't you have girlfriend?

[6/4/2013 9:51:25 AM] emelyn basila: ohh... how many girlfirends you have ?

[6/4/2013 9:53:10 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I am dating a few girls, but I am a guy that can be monogamous. And I really like having girls as friends. When I meet a girl that I like, I don't cheat on her. I treat her really well, but in the meantime, I will be honest and I will say whther I am dating other girls or not. Everyone will always know the whole situation.

[6/4/2013 9:56:30 AM] emelyn basila: ohhh...that's nice its a guy like you is very rare anywhere in the world...

[6/4/2013 9:57:28 AM] emelyn basila: most of a guys now a days are cheater...

[6/4/2013 9:57:40 AM] emelyn basila: which I hate the most

[6/4/2013 9:57:57 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I know most guys will lie to girls and tell you anything just to sleep with.

[6/4/2013 9:58:14 AM] emelyn basila: your right trey.....

[6/4/2013 9:58:21 AM] emelyn basila: I agree with you...

[6/4/2013 9:59:14 AM] emelyn basila: I hate guys like that

[6/4/2013 9:59:47 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I'm not looking for a relationship. I am looking for THE ONE. I don't know who she is yet. I love talking to you.

[6/4/2013 10:00:31 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I would love to hand out with you Em.

[6/4/2013 10:00:38 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: *hang :)

[6/4/2013 10:01:25 AM] emelyn basila: lets hang out on finger talk trey

[6/4/2013 10:01:50 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: That's the best we can do for now. lol

[6/4/2013 10:01:59 AM] emelyn basila: I know your a nice person I can feel it

[6/4/2013 10:03:18 AM] emelyn basila: that's why i'm confident to give you my personal info cuz I feel I can trust you

[6/4/2013 10:03:40 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: You can trust me Em.

[6/4/2013 10:03:43 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I feel the same way.

[6/4/2013 10:05:15 AM] emelyn basila: ya.. I hope we can trust each other lets keep it this on our own ..please lets keep it this secret trey

[6/4/2013 10:05:51 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Emelyn, I would not hurt you like that.

[6/4/2013 10:06:14 AM] emelyn basila: this is highly probihited in 123employee

[6/4/2013 10:06:21 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I know.

[6/4/2013 10:06:23 AM] emelyn basila: thanks trey

[6/4/2013 10:06:46 AM] emelyn basila: you can call me emz it'z my neckname

[6/4/2013 10:07:19 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Cool Emz!

[6/4/2013 10:08:24 AM] emelyn basila: Trey I'm not sure if I can go back to work tonight..

[6/4/2013 10:08:37 AM] emelyn basila: I'm so worried about you

[6/4/2013 10:08:48 AM] emelyn basila: I really want to stop working 123

[6/4/2013 10:09:17 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Would you stop and quit as soon as tonight?

[6/4/2013 10:09:50 AM] emelyn basila: actually I must not come back yesterday to work but I go to office because of you

[6/4/2013 10:11:17 AM] emelyn basila: I'm very concern with you I'm afraid if I;m not go to office no one will work for the task.

[6/4/2013 10:11:42 AM] emelyn basila: or ealse somebody will replace me

[6/4/2013 10:11:52 AM] emelyn basila: I don't want to lost you trey

[6/4/2013 10:12:17 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't want to lose you either Emz.

[6/4/2013 10:13:12 AM] emelyn basila: I do'nt want you to think that I'm rude person...just leaving without saying goodbye..

[6/4/2013 10:14:06 AM] emelyn basila: Honestly trey I'm really confuse I don't know what to do..

[6/4/2013 10:15:12 AM] emelyn basila: 123 salary is not enough is too low

[6/4/2013 10:15:33 AM] emelyn basila: I need to look for a company which has higher salary

[6/4/2013 10:15:51 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: How much do you need to make per hour?

[6/4/2013 10:17:37 AM] emelyn basila: I'm not looking for a per hour salary I'm looking for a salary that is much higher than 200$ a month.

[6/4/2013 10:18:00 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: How much do you need to make per month?

[6/4/2013 10:19:11 AM] emelyn basila: In my past job I earn 500$ a month

[6/4/2013 10:19:30 AM] emelyn basila: 123employee has a very low salary

[6/4/2013 10:20:49 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I have an idea. I can just send you a brand new laptop and pay a monthly fee for your internet connection. Do you know how to use the Macbook?

[6/4/2013 10:21:50 AM] emelyn basila: no trey I don't want you to think that I'm using you Rosetta won't like it

[6/4/2013 10:22:37 AM] emelyn basila: and you still have a commitment to 123 you can't cancell it

[6/4/2013 10:23:30 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Emz, Let me finish, please.

[6/4/2013 10:23:43 AM] emelyn basila: all I just want you to know that I'm planning to leave 123employee to look for a company which offer a high salary

[6/4/2013 10:23:54 AM] emelyn basila: okay sorry please go..

[6/4/2013 10:24:22 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Can you pay more money if you just work for us?

[6/4/2013 10:24:34 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Rosetta will know too.

[6/4/2013 10:25:39 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Can you just do 123 employee just 3 more months? and that will give me time to send you a computer and set you with an internet connection where you live.

[6/4/2013 10:27:12 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I can instead send you a PC laptop.

[6/4/2013 10:28:44 AM] emelyn basila: I want to forgive you trey but i don't think Ican stay 3 more months to 123 if I have to stay that long I need sign up a contract exclusive for 1year...if i do that I cannot leave 123 until I finish the 1year contract.

[6/4/2013 10:30:07 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I am not under a contract with 123 employee. I don't get why they can make you sign a contract. Please explain further.

[6/4/2013 10:36:35 AM] emelyn basila: okay let me tell you the truth trey I work almost 3months at 123 as a trainee ...that is true trey ... and now I already done the training stage, the company ask for my medical records for a contract signing...but i did not get a medical certificate because I dont want to sign a contract..... If I have to sign a contract... that is one year exclusive contract it means I'm not allowed to leave the company for one year until I finish the contract.

[6/4/2013 10:38:43 AM] emelyn basila: but I'm not lying to you trey I work as a SEO before at the other company for almost twoyears.. I also work before as a office staff for more than 2yrs.

[6/4/2013 10:39:05 AM] emelyn basila: I hope you understand my situation trey...

[6/4/2013 10:40:31 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Money solves most problem Emz. What do I have to pay for to get you to work for me still?

[6/4/2013 10:41:49 AM] emelyn basila: are you really want me to work with you?

[6/4/2013 10:42:43 AM] emelyn basila: you can stay 123 for 3 months trey but different VA but I'm sure they will still use my sodu name alice rio

[6/4/2013 10:43:14 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Yes. That is why I am still talking to you.

[6/4/2013 10:43:21 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to work with you.

[6/4/2013 10:44:07 AM] emelyn basila: mee too trey i still want to work with you but I need to leave 123

[6/4/2013 10:44:42 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Can you just stay for three more months then quit?

[6/4/2013 10:46:13 AM] emelyn basila: trey if have to stay 3more months I need to sign the one year contract they wont allow me to quit after 3months...

[6/4/2013 10:47:32 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: What can they do if you quit? They won't sue you or take you to court. It is too time consuming.

[6/4/2013 10:47:46 AM] emelyn basila: I don't know what to do....I don't want to lost you.. your getting close to me it hurt me so bad to lost you...

[6/4/2013 10:48:07 AM] emelyn basila: sounds like that trey

[6/4/2013 10:49:59 AM] emelyn basila: If i'm not mistaken trey you started we started 40hrs last may 20 I have a record of that

[6/4/2013 10:50:42 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't know for sure. I think you started on May 18 as 40 hours per week.

[6/4/2013 10:51:07 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: *April

[6/4/2013 10:51:12 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: *May

[6/4/2013 10:51:58 AM] emelyn basila: no trey... may 18 was saturday....

[6/4/2013 10:52:32 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok. Wait, are you say you may stop going back to work right now?

[6/4/2013 10:52:37 AM] emelyn basila: so may 20 I told the HR i start work with you 40 hrs may 20

[6/4/2013 10:54:13 AM] emelyn basila: I want but I can't beacuse I dont want to leave you in 123 with other VA

[6/4/2013 10:55:33 AM] emelyn basila: if I leave you at 123 trey it would be another adjustment with other VA

[6/4/2013 10:56:37 AM] emelyn basila: are you mad at me trey?

[6/4/2013 10:57:14 AM] emelyn basila: are you still there?

[6/4/2013 10:57:20 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: yes

[6/4/2013 10:58:06 AM] emelyn basila: are you mad at me?

[6/4/2013 10:58:13 AM] emelyn basila: sorry

[6/4/2013 10:58:39 AM] emelyn basila: I don't want you to confuse

[6/4/2013 10:58:51 AM] emelyn basila: are you okay?

[6/4/2013 10:59:42 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't get it. Are you saying you are going to stop working at 123 right now?

[6/4/2013 11:00:31 AM] emelyn basila: I want to stop....but i can't leave you to another VA..

[6/4/2013 11:01:51 AM] emelyn basila: will is it be okay with you... I leave now then you will be given to another VA..are you okay with that?

[6/4/2013 11:02:33 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Go then.

[6/4/2013 11:03:16 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I'm not mad at you.

[6/4/2013 11:03:41 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Also, I don't you to work for me and Rosetta if you don't want to.

[6/4/2013 11:04:17 AM] emelyn basila: Trey I want to work for you and Rosetta you know that

[6/4/2013 11:04:33 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: So why don't you stay?

[6/4/2013 11:05:16 AM] emelyn basila: are you signing for 3monts contract to 123?

[6/4/2013 11:05:39 AM] emelyn basila: I know your mad at me this time

[6/4/2013 11:05:52 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I don't have to sign a three month contract. I don't sign a contract.

[6/4/2013 11:06:12 AM] emelyn basila: even if you don't tell me I can feel it

[6/4/2013 11:06:17 AM] emelyn basila: your mad...

[6/4/2013 11:06:37 AM] emelyn basila: so why you need to stay 123 for 3months?

[6/4/2013 11:06:58 AM] emelyn basila: did you already pay them for 3months?

[6/4/2013 11:07:04 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I need time to send you a computer which will take about 3 months.

[6/4/2013 11:07:34 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I need some to continue working for me Rosetta so we will not be doing nothing for 3 months.

[6/4/2013 11:07:41 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: *someone

[6/4/2013 11:08:07 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: It takes a long time to send you a computer and it is very expensive to ship it to you.

[6/4/2013 11:08:50 AM] emelyn basila: I can buy here a second hand laptop

[6/4/2013 11:09:34 AM] emelyn basila: but for now i can't buy yet cuz I don't have a badget for that

[6/4/2013 11:10:34 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Can you just training the next person everything you learned so far?

[6/4/2013 11:11:08 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I was happy to send help you, but you don't want my help.

[6/4/2013 11:11:56 AM] emelyn basila: I have to render somebody It would take for me another one month to stay in 123

[6/4/2013 11:12:12 AM] emelyn basila: thats a company policy

[6/4/2013 11:12:34 AM] emelyn basila: I need to train that person for one month

[6/4/2013 11:12:47 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok. Please do that.

[6/4/2013 11:13:10 AM] emelyn basila: what?

[6/4/2013 11:14:07 AM] emelyn basila: Okay I stay for you But I will not train someboby I still be the one to work for you..

[6/4/2013 11:15:12 AM] emelyn basila: ?

[6/4/2013 11:16:30 AM] emelyn basila: trey my time is almost ended are you still there?

[6/4/2013 11:17:03 AM] emelyn basila: don't be mad please

[6/4/2013 11:18:30 AM] emelyn basila: I will be on office tonight I will work for you 3months

[6/4/2013 11:18:43 AM] emelyn basila: will that be okay

[6/4/2013 11:19:24 AM] emelyn basila: I will sign the contract after 3 months I will just find a way how to quit

[6/4/2013 11:20:20 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok great!

[6/4/2013 11:21:07 AM] emelyn basila: so your not mad at me anymore?

[6/4/2013 11:21:12 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: No.

[6/4/2013 11:21:41 AM] emelyn basila: I do this for you beacause I don't want to lost you

[6/4/2013 11:21:46 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to visit you soon so I can kiss you, babe. : -)

[6/4/2013 11:22:49 AM] emelyn basila: anyway trey if I use my alice rio please don't call me babe th ecompany will tract it

[6/4/2013 11:23:00 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Lol

[6/4/2013 11:23:06 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Sure Alice.

[6/4/2013 11:23:15 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I'm just being friendly.

[6/4/2013 11:23:38 AM] emelyn basila: I know

[6/4/2013 11:24:12 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I still need you to work hard and do your daily tasks.

[6/4/2013 11:24:15 AM] emelyn basila: so I just to make it clear with you I;ll be on office tonight

[6/4/2013 11:24:35 AM] emelyn basila: I will work for you 3 months

[6/4/2013 11:24:36 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I can't hurt Rosetta's magazine and the business she is trying to start.

[6/4/2013 11:25:11 AM] emelyn basila: mee to Iknow shes just staring this business I want to help her too

[6/4/2013 11:25:37 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Please let me know through here in advance if you ever plan on leaving 123, so we can discuss first.

[6/4/2013 11:25:51 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I want to help you Emz.

[6/4/2013 11:25:59 AM] emelyn basila: thanks trey

[6/4/2013 11:26:11 AM] emelyn basila: afetr 3months I leave 123

[6/4/2013 11:26:23 AM] emelyn basila: but for now I stay for you

[6/4/2013 11:26:43 AM] emelyn basila: I have to go Trey my time has ended

[6/4/2013 11:26:54 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: I love you Emz!

[6/4/2013 11:26:55 AM] emelyn basila: I need to go home too and sllep

[6/4/2013 11:27:00 AM] emelyn basila: byee..

[6/4/2013 11:27:09 AM] Trey Woods | App Marketer: Ok. Have a good day.

[6/4/2013 11:27:27 AM] emelyn basila: I love you too as a friend...

[6/4/2013 11:27:45 AM] emelyn basila: remember lets keep it this secret trey

[6/4/2013 11:28:20 AM] appmarketer: No, no problem Emz. As I said, you can trust me.

Honestly this is embarrassing on so many levels. Looks like Trey was looking for a new girlfriend.

We have a strict no leniency rule when it comes to full prosecution with the NBI. This is a federal cyber chrime in the Philippines. The agent was arrested.

A few times a year an employee or client tries to steal each other and we have no choice but to prosecute.

We hope that Trey plans to employ his agent for a long time as she will pretty much be unemployable in the Philippines.

It pains us to do this, but unfortunately we have no choice. This record will follow our former agent for life. Every time she applies for a job etc. this will show up on her background check.

This situation is very unfortunate. What usually happens with freelancers in the Philippines is that that the employee ends up having a power, infrastructure, internet or family problem and then everybody looses. Unfortunately, your case will probably be no exception to this rule.

In addition to this, the embarrassment to her family will probably be even worse. Most Filipinos take great pride in their work. We understand that our former agent tried to recruit Trey, but it doesn’t matter, you had a choice.

Ultimately it’s the agent that pays and that is a true shame. Trey will move on, find other employees, but she will always have to pay the consequences for this very poor decision. We are still considering pursuing action against Trey in the US. Thank you.

0 0

Jul 25, 2013 PissedConsumer686997 #686997

Lets set the record straight here. This comment was posted by Rosetta Wood. Our client was Trey Wood. Mom paid the bill

When Trey signed up for our serivces he received this disclaimer:

Terms and Conditions :

Internet security laws are very strict in the Philippines to protect the interests of clients like you and companies like 123Employee that invest millions of dollars in facilities and training.

In addition, all our employees sign before doing our clients tasks. All virtual assistants sign company documents that state we will take legal action for:

* Leaking confidential data

* Client data theft

* Client theft (if a Virtual Assistant attempts / or steals a client from 123Employee)

* Misuse and sharing of client data

Clients can request that their Virtual Assistant can NDA's if required.